Joined: 18 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 6:58 am Post subject: Does Hollywood Matter? | |
| Most of the Hollywood elite came out for Kerry............and W got the highest number of votes in history. I think that most of America could care less about actors and rock stars opinions on politics. Shut up and act! IMO | |
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:18 am Post subject: | |
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They've just as much a right to voice their opinion as everyone else IMO.
Check out this thread at another site. |
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Joined: 18 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:15 pm Post subject: | |
| Interesting thread, thanks. I think they have the right also. My question was do their opinions really matter? I think that they think their opinions mean more or have more influence than others. But I hope they dont whine if people dont go to their movies or concerts because of the views voiced during the campain. | |
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:08 pm Post subject: | |||||
About as much as everyone elses.
I don't believe that actors or musicians think that their opinions necessarily mean more than anyone elses. But, considering that actors and musicians by nature of their profession are integral to media they probably do have more influence. I believe that if you give anyone access to the media that they can have a profound influence. And the growing independent media scene suggests that I'm not the only one who believes this. |
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| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 2:45 am Post subject: | |||||||
I agree up to a point Slek. I think we may have seen a backlash in this election just past though. I think a lot of the people in this country are just as tired of seeing some millionaire entertainer get up and lambast the president as they are of having the millionaire president and the horde of Ferengis running the country now lambast everyone else. After a while it simply gets to the point where even if you agree with what these people are saying, you simply cannot relate to any of them. A millionaire liberal has no more use for or relation to Joe the truck driver than the millionaire conservative corporation head and most of us are intelligent enough to figure that out while we're figuring everything else out. |
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| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:54 am Post subject: | |||||||
Perhaps this is the beginning of a backlash. But, like everything else, things are going to get worse before they get better.
Well, a lot of the people certainly didn't vote as though they're tired of that.
Indeed. And I long for the day when people start electing rooted politicians again instead of (failed) business men. |
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Joined: 18 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 8:32 am Post subject: | |||
I think that the man that at least tries in the real world is far superior to the politician who has never tried! |
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:50 am Post subject: | |||
Far superior as a politician? I disagree. Career politicians are just that, career politicians. They've spent their entire careers in public service - serving the public - usually starting at the community level. This is what I meant by "rooted". Business men typically enter politics to serve business interests, not public interests. Politics is the administration of government and government is the administration of public, not private, policy. Thus business men, simply by nature of their trade, make inferior politicians. |
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:09 am Post subject: | |||||
More like serving themselves, my friend... |
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:10 am Post subject: | |
| Which? Business men or career politicians? | |
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:14 am Post subject: | |||||
I dis agree..........business men are aware of how things work in the real world. The world of politics is insulated from the people after a while. Turnover and change is the best way to represent the wishes of the people. You made a generalisation....
Let me make one..............politicians usually are out to gain one thing..........more power for themselves. |
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:34 am Post subject: | |||||||
Define "real world". Is a small community not a part of the "real world"? How is a business man more aware of the nuances of a community than a career politician whose interest in politics was, more often than not, spurred by the nuances of a community? The role of a politician is to represent the will of s/his constituents. The entire purpose of a business is to generate profit. Therefore the role of a business man is to institute and govern policies that will, in turn, generate more profit for the business. Clearly there is more to a prosperous community than simply profit. The same applies to a prosperous nation.
Do you think this is good or bad? To get back on topic, this is exactly the phenomena that musicians and actors and their role in the media are attempting to combat: Apathy and disenfranchisement.
And this is different and/or worse than a business man and his desire to generate profit how? |
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Joined: 18 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:11 pm Post subject: | |||||
Are you saying that profit is a bad thing? And that politcal power is good?
You never did support that statement btw 
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:47 pm Post subject: | |||||
No. I am asking you to clarify your position as you've stated a lot without really saying anything at all. It's kind of difficult to have a discussion when one of the participants ignores direct questions and avoids the opportunity to clarify themselves.
It doesn't require any support. Note the term "typically" and its definition and implications. |
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Joined: 18 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:11 am Post subject: | |
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Fair enough. I do not typiclly admire or trust professional politicians. I feel the more they gain power the more they want. Then they lose sight of the "real world". The real world I define as working to make a living. Busting your hump to make a living and get ahead. A politican gets paid now how bad a job or how lazy he or she is. A real person has to perform. The business person often brings a sense of dicipline and work ethic that I think professional politicians lack. Turnover is the best thing for government IMO. Strict term limits keep government from getting too powerfull.
I did not know that if you use the word "typically" one does not have to back up a statement. 
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:42 am Post subject: | |||||||||||
Yeah, you've made that clear already. What you haven't done is explained how the reasons that you distrust politicians don't apply to business men.
The same can be directly applied to business men. Substituting profit for power of course.
Again, can be directly applied to business men. Unless of course you're suggesting that career politics isn't a "real" job.
Again, see a pattern here? Your position appears to be that behaviour and policies intended to generate profit for a business are better suited to representing the will of and/or governing the people than behaviours and policies intended to represent the will of and/or govern the people. Is this correct? And you support this position by applying criticism only to politicians despite the stark similarities between the opined motives of both politicians and business men. Correct?
Your harping doesn't diminish the point. However, if you'd prefer to nitpick each others posts instead of addressing the points I'd be happy to identify all of your unsupported statements.
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Joined: 18 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:57 am Post subject: | |||||||||||
Ummm I thought I did.........
It is far easier to fire a CEO than it is to remove a politician. And CEO get canned all the time for not performing.
Yes it is.
Yes, because some of the most evil people in the world have been politicians. I simply trust very few. I am sure you will try and show how business people have caused pain and suffering.........and especially in Germanys case, they were involved with the Holocaust. I guess it is a cultural thing between us. You dont seem to like or trust big business and I dont like or trust big government. Perhaps both are a nessecary evil. |
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:01 am Post subject: | |||||||||||||||||
Ok, so let me get this straight: Because business men "often bring a sense of dicipline and work ethic", they are insusceptible to the type of criticism that you've leveled at career politicians and any such criticism is automatically unwarranted and invalid because of their status as a business person. Correct? No offense but that doesn't actually explain anything other than a bias founded in the arbitrary application of your own opinion. Of politicians you said:
In reply I suggested that the same concept is applicable to business men provided that you substitute "profit" for "power". Witness the explosive growth and saturation of multinational corporations like McDonalds or Starbucks. What reason besides profit does McDonalds have for operating in Kuwait? Or Pakistan? Or Croatia?
How would you explain that to the employees of Enron?
And under-performing politicians don't get voted in for another term.
Ok, then could you explain how? What are the advantages that a business methodology driven by profit provides in the administration of public policy?
I don't particularly like either. And I don't believe that either do a suitable job of administering public policy. However, much like I wouldn't hire an arborist to cut my hair, I wouldn't hire a business man to run my democracy. |
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:38 pm Post subject: | |
| I bet some of those guys that do bonsai would do nice hair! | |
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:19 am Post subject: | |||
I'll take that bet. Don't forget to post your before and after pics. |
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:12 pm Post subject: | |
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:18 pm Post subject: | |
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:52 pm Post subject: | |
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sleK, Too Funny!
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Joined: 18 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:30 am Post subject: | |||
See! I told ya it would look nice! |
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| Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:32 am Post subject: | |
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