Unions defend workers and help the economy

Joined: 04 Jul 2003 Posts: 477

i would love to believe in the "let the economy figure out things on its own" One little problem. the wealthiest 1 percent of our country controls nearly 70 percent of the money supply. There are obvious flaws in letting the economy work things out for themselves. What we need in this country is a real labor party. If we did have a stronger party who enacted more rules we would be able to better protect ourselves by not letting companies just up and leave so much to other companies that have lower wages. European countries have been doing it for years. Yes there economy is not the greatest but neither really is ours at the moment. Also by giving higher wages it closes the gap of the top peoples pay compared to the average worker of a company. Do you think ceo's really deserve 100's of time the wages that the workers make?

Joined: 04 Jul 2003 Posts: 477

other countries i mean not other countries. little mistake there

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 12:01 am Post subject:

of course CEO's do not deserve what they are being paid, but you are dancing away from the issue that is inflated salaries for menial jobs...how does one justify paying someone to stand on line and move something 15 dollars an hour?

if you want to make more money, work your ass off and gain experience...not every person is the same, you can't pay everyone the same way and the same salary...the better workers deserve to get paid more because they themselves through their skills are better able to produce more money for their employer than some inexperienced schmuck off the streets

Joined: 04 Jul 2003 Posts: 477

Maybe the person does not deserve that 15 dollars an hour. Or maybe that person does. Because of a union the lowest level person can be paid a decent wage. Ceo's on the other hand just ten years ago were on average making 20 times the average pay of a worker. That number has skyrocketed into hundreds of times greater. I tell you what. I would be more then happy to agree with you on paying that 15 dollar an hour person half that as soon as the ford ceo would agree to only 20 times the salary of the average worker in the company. When that happens come and tell me i will never argue with you again.

Joined: 04 Jul 2003 Posts: 1416 Location: Indianapolis, IN

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 12:08 am Post subject:

Joined: 08 Jul 2003 Posts: 6309

And with the turnover rate of retail in general let alone Sears I venture to say a unionized company would have a much lower layoff rate than turnover rate and the rate of decline of business might have actually been slowed for an experienced employees could saved,salvaged or averted the loss of many a sale and also would have made the company think twice about what it was doing due to contract requirements.

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 12:12 am Post subject:

Joined: 04 Jul 2003 Posts: 477

Unhappy i am glad we could come to an agreement. So as long as company execs are making outragous somes of money we will have those unions paying people 15 dollars an hour for the smallest jobs. If nothing changes unions will only get stronger over the years because more and more people will get mad with what is going on. Think 15 dollars an hour is bad, what happened if that person got paid 30 dollars an hour instead of 15 (ceo's salaried double that year why not that persons, did either of them double there efficiency to earn more). Also i agree with you people should get raises and be paid what there worth. Ideal for a perfect world. I totally wished i lived there:) A place where everyone buys a pa and signs up for account care (no questions asked) Smile

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 12:15 am Post subject:

Joined: 04 Jul 2003 Posts: 477

Another plus one for the robbie dee camp. I seem to have the force on my side today. Thought i was all alone, thanks for the reply. You are absolutely correct about us and europe by the way. Where can i buy some euros??? Smile

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 12:18 am Post subject:

BTW, some of those plants are moving to other areas of this country, not south of the border...NJ is really expensive...and there are no careers left in retail...there is too much competition now for companies to pull any real profit anymore, hence they will employ mostly part timers, not just sears, but all of retail...that is just the way th retail sector of the economy is panning out

Joined: 04 Jul 2003 Posts: 477

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 12:19 am Post subject:

Joined: 04 Jul 2003 Posts: 933 Location: roaming...

I have no qualms with the CEOs making what they do, as long as the other underling employees are fairly compensated. As searsmatrix pointed out, however, the latest trend has been for employees' wages to decrease proportionately to the CEO's increase. Luckily, I've managed to keep my annual income the same (almost to the dollar) for the past seven years. With commissioned earnings being so hard to prove/predict, makes it so much easier arguing my case for lost/stolen wages.

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 12:26 am Post subject:

Joined: 04 Jul 2003 Posts: 477

Unhappy of course it is not due to one single country. But if you look at the european countries as a whole, unions have a stronger presence there then they do here. Maybe it's time we take a lessen from our european brothers on that one. They might know something we don't Smile

Joined: 07 Jul 2003 Posts: 153

This is the first job I have ever held that was not union, so I know there is a BIG difference in the way you are treated in a union vs a non union business. Let's not even talk about the wage aspect of a union. Let's talk about the job itself. In a union shop (store) you are not asked to do things not directly related to your position, a kid off the street does not come into the place making more than you do (and you've been there 2 years). The pay structure is not reduced or changed at the whim of managment. There is a clear system regarding warnings (absence, under par job performance, etc..) The list could go on and on of course and never mention wages. I personally think wages are at the bottom of my list where Sears is concerned. They treat their employees so poorly in every other respect, that I think those areas need to be addressed and standardized as much or more than wages.

Joined: 04 Jul 2003 Posts: 477

you know fjsales i might agree with you on that one. If they would treat people better and have more respect (due away with point system) and flood the floors less so we dont act like caged animals fighting over one bone then i think i could look past the whole salary thing, not that it is not important but is only one aspect like you said of a union. Unions first and formost provide job security. Thats the basis for them to protect its workers under them. Good post fj keep it up.

Joined: 04 Jul 2003 Posts: 477

Anyone care to provide some stats that prove my original claims wrong of how unions do not help the economy. Funny how know one has been able to directly challange me on that. I am beggining to think that everyone agrees with me on that. Not to bad in a days work.

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 12:55 am Post subject:

where are your stats that unions DO improve the economy?

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:04 am Post subject:

Joined: 04 Jul 2003 Posts: 477

Never thought you would ask unhappy, here you go. I will break them down even further if you wish (after reading the material below)

BUT DON'T UNIONS HURT THE ECONOMY? No...

Let's look at the economic facts comparing heavily unionized countries verus the US.

The US has one of the lowest unionization rates among industrialized countries. Where 16.4% of workers are unionized in the US, 26.8% are unionized in Japan and 33.8% are unionized in Germany. Sweden, with one of the highest standards of living in the world and one of the lowest
unemployment rates over the last 20 years, has a 85.3% unionization rate.

Note that with a lower unionization rate, the US had the highest drop in manufacturing employment of those countries (over 30% drop in manufacturing employment. Germany lost only 7.8% of its manufacturing employment, while Japan gained 13.6%

The US also had the lowest productivity gain in all sectors of the economy over the last twenty years.

In the US, 40% of manufacturing employees have to change jobs in each year. Only 25% of German workers have to seek out a new job each year, and only 18% of Swedish and Japanese workers switch jobs.

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:11 am Post subject:

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:19 am Post subject:

just for the record, I could care less about the stats. But during the depresssion employers took major advantage of workers which just kept society geting poorer and poorer. THe average family was not living a life of dignity. A person could not afford to pay there bills. Unions are what started the ball rolling again protecting workers instead of the one sides society of the companies making a killing on cheap wages. The unions need to come back strong again. I totally see why this helps society. We are not the only ones who have no trust in the corporations we work in. when Unions are strong arming your employer for equal rights the confidence grows people spend more and the money is equaled out for a quality life. If we had a union they would not have been able to cut into are paycheck two weeks ago. During the last depression eveyone joined a union clock workers steel workers, you name it. I say go union any time

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