Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 1292
Location: Brand Central
| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:01 pm Post subject: A few observations on these forums: | |
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so....
i was told i should "start my own threads" and then those thread topics were belittled and so was i... instead of simply joining the chorus of bitter and angry people whining about Sears, i have dared to ask actual questions that require actual thought... that seems to threaten the order if things. i was told: make sure your responses are to the issue at hand and then my replies are attacked as being not 'enough' to the issue at hand lets face it: there are a few seriously grumpy people here who do not like opinions other than the ones in their little clique and they HATE being questioned about anything ... and they hate it even worse when their hypocrisy is pointed out. of course, this observation will probably get no response, because the truth hurts. |
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Administrator
Joined: 30 Jun 2003
Posts: 1010
Location: over yonder
| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:53 am Post subject: | |||
A more apt reason would probably be "because nobody really cares." I posit that most if not all of our regular visitors have been around this forum and others long enough to know that there's always a handful of people that like to stir the pot just to watch the water go 'round. There's nothing novel or "threatening" about it. I also suggest that, like most forums, only a handful of posters are interested in discussing the same sorts of topics that you and I might. Again, it's nothing unusual. Go to any forum with 100,000+ members and you'll probably find only a few hundred regularly participating in contentious topics. Similarly, your "clique" comment applies to every forum ever opened for registration. In larger forums dissenting opinions are often attacked en masse. Here you're lucky if you get to test you defenses against two or three line-toers. All in all, if you or anyone else doesn't like the way things are here you're free to leave. Our forum is neither a democracy nor a prison camp. We have but a simple set of rules that participants are expected to abide by. If you don't like them or the way they're enforced you're free to start your own forum and run it however you see fit or join one of the many others available. Likewise, if your problem is only with particular members of the forum, you're free to ignore them. Should you believe that their behaviour violates our rules you're also free to bring the matter to my attention. What more could you ask for? |
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Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 1292
Location: Brand Central
| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:27 am Post subject: | |
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i'm obviously cool with all of that, otherwise i simply would go away
i've learned a number of useful things here that have helped me understand my current position, and it is for that reason that i keep stopping in and yet, i cannot help but think that the place would be livelier, more interesting and have a higher participation rate overall if *every* single thread wasn't an "i hate (insert object of derision here)" i'm rather dogged in my participation until i get bored with something... and this place is certainly anything but boring and i do appreciate your considered response. |
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Joined: 06 Jul 2003
Posts: 695
| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:28 am Post subject: | |||
nothing |
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Joined: 06 Jul 2003
Posts: 6746
Location: Central CA
| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:14 am Post subject: | |||||
Ditto. I've never understood people who arrive late to a party and immediately start trying to shape it into something else of their own choosing. There's a very good chance that if most of the people here WANTED your type of "lively" banter, it's what they would have been engaging in all this time. They obviously choose to use THIS forum for something else. I'm sorry, I just can't buy the idea that you don't know or understand that. There have to be literally thousands of forums out there where where people DO engage in your type of banter. What is your obsession with trying to turn this one into one of them? |
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Administrator
Joined: 30 Jun 2003
Posts: 1010
Location: over yonder
| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:33 am Post subject: | |||||
Any one of us could put something different after the "if" and it would be just as valid. For example, me being somewhat of a geek, I'd find the forum more interesting and participate more often "if" there were more topics about scripting mundane tasks. But there aren't and I don't begrudge anyone or anything for it. I simply get my fix elsewhere.
I think those are great topics... provided that the reasoning for the "hate" is thoughtfully prepared, elucidated, and reinforced. |
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Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 238
Location: Your mom's house.
| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:58 am Post subject: | |||||||
Whoa whoa whoa... First the forum is like a dinner at a restaraunt with everyone at different tables having their own private conversations... Then the forum is like a movie theater where it is rude to talk to anyone... NOW it's like a party? Don't get me wrong, I like the analogy. But you don't really strike me as the partying type. You see Nofsdad...at a REAL party...the people who get there late and and "shape" it are called "the life of the party." Without them you don't really have a party. You have wine and cheese at 6:00 sharp. If this forum really is like a party, it doesn't strike me as odd that you have trouble understanding this concept.
How can they engage in it if it is being restricted? That is what this thread is about. I just can't buy into the idea that you don't know or understand that. Please try to stay on topic so this thread isn't removed.
There have to be literally thousands of blog sites out there where you can post whatever you want and never have to read an opposing viewpoint. What is your obsession with trying to turn a forum into one of them? |
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Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 238
Location: Your mom's house.
| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:03 am Post subject: Re: A few observations on these forums: | |||
Don't worry about it MA. I think alot of the people on here just come to vent their frustrations. Get in the way of that and it gets them...well....frustrated. Last edited by modelemployee on Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 238
Location: Your mom's house.
| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:09 am Post subject: Re: A few observations on these forums: | |
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All that being said, it's Thursday night so I'm going out to a real party. Yes I will be getting there late and if it's lame I'll take it upon myself to change that.
Cheers! |
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Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 1292
Location: Brand Central
| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:27 am Post subject: | |||
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Cheers back!
i've been out and about and the likker was flowing... and i'm in a 'lively' mood... and if i didn't have to open, it still would be. and your comments above:
cracked me up beyond good reason. Cheers indeed sir! |
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Joined: 06 Jul 2003
Posts: 6746
Location: Central CA
| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:04 am Post subject: | |
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MA... I'm not leaving. It ain't gonna happen. While there are things that COULD bring that about, your latest in a growing list of whiny little posts about "What's wrong with these forums" isn't about to be one of them.
I made the same complaint when you were sitting around with your feet curled around a limb like some damned vulture waiting for ME to make a post so you you could jump on it and change the subject. Did it both in public posts and in PMs. Remember your responses when I did? No... no bullshit this time. Flat out. DO YOU REMEMBER HOW YOU RESPONDED? I even complained to the management. Did it mostly by PM instead of putting on a public performance for the "reading audience" and making all these little "observations" on "what's wrong with everybody but me" posts on the public board. Was told basically to ignore the whole thing. Actually, it's Kind of hard to ignore, when you can't start a single discussion and have it continue uninterrupted for more than 3-4 posts, but that's not something you appear capable of comprehending based on YOUR use of "teh internets". Now, IF you are right in the assertions that you're making in all these "observations"... and I'm not saying you are but IF... what makes you think you're entitled to any more consideration than I was when the shoe was definitely on the other foot? Do you draw some kind of distinction between threadjacking... which you did NOT deny was what you were doing but actually DEFENDED as a "normal part" of what, in YOUR opinion, constitutes free and open discussion and reiterated your intention to keep right on doing... and someone calling bullshit when they think your putting it out there? I don't come here to play free association games in other people's threads and I don't care to have my own turned into those kind of fun and games just because someone has nothing to contribute to the discussion taking place but still wants to inflict himself on it. So is what we're hearing here is that it's OK for you to %$#! around with OTHER people's threads but it's not OK when you think YOURS are being %$%@ed with? How the hell does THAT work? What is the difference other than in one instance you're dishing it out and in the other, you're taking it... other than you seem to be a whole lot better at the former than at the latter? I'd really like to know how you came up with this double standard you seem to have going here. |
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Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 1292
Location: Brand Central
| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:09 am Post subject: | |
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dude
double standard? not at all.... i welcome your participation in any thread i start, as you are one of the more interesting people here. i might lampoon some of your comments here and there, but i would hardly treat you with the same disdain and dismissal as you treat me. |
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Joined: 06 Jul 2003
Posts: 6746
Location: Central CA
| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:10 am Post subject: | |
Right. 
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Joined: 18 Mar 2005
Posts: 235
Location: 3rd coast
| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:59 pm Post subject: | |||
That's a matter of opinion, of course. One person's "life of the party" is another person's "blow hard, insecure, obdurate, obnoxious bore." In parties that I am invited to and attend, such a person generally is either ignored or shown the door. So sure, if you prefer, show up late, put the lampshade on your head, knock over furniture, drink, spill a drink on someone else, make an ass of yourself, whatever . . . And I've had plenty a good time in the company of others, with wine and cheese at 6:00 sharp. 
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Joined: 06 Jul 2003
Posts: 6746
Location: Central CA
| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject: | |||||
If the party is about wine and cheese at 6 sharp why would anybody but an egotistical twit or maybe a knuckle dragging unrehabilitated frat brat feel he had a "duty" to "shape" it into something else? So you're saying that you would show up late at a party for people who WANT to discuss wine and cheese and... well, do and be all those things that Happy_Camper just enumerated JUST so you can be the center of attention which is what "life of the party" means, right? Hmmm. Isn't that kind of what I've been saying all along? |
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Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 1292
Location: Brand Central
| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 2:18 am Post subject: | |
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your antipathy is telling.
its obvious that in your opinion, this forum is really not "open" to retail employees who wish to discuss where they work and the world they inhabit, unless they have the approved mindset. and, if people do not agree with the prevailing views of a small clique of regulars, then they are to be abused, marginalized and belittled, and examples of that attitude abound in threads current. why not simply state in the FAQs that dissension is not encouraged... that: "you will conform to the prevailing views of the 4 or 5 groupthink leaders, or you will be slapped down and asked to STFU." independent thoughts are not encouraged. countervailing viewpoints are verboten. in that sense (and i pointed this out before to some extreme consternation) you are, as a small group, as bad as the executives you hate. you are as cloistered and self congratulatory as any mindless MBA that ever passed out of a low grade diploma mill. in short, you are guilty of the tyranny of the mob. i'm sure you are all very proud. |
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Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 317
| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:57 am Post subject: | |||
That probably sums up this group in the best way possible. You and I can't, or are unable, to talk about our positive experiences without being lambasted, ignored, or belittled. Just because we have an opposite mindset means that we are in the minority, and therefore dragged through the mud. You'll see this sort of thing all the time with others who aren't as brave to stand up. I've seen Vickers, for example, one time actually apologize in advance for saying something positive about Sears. WTF is that about? We have to be SORRY for liking our job or something about it? - and that's just to fit in and not be dismembered by everyone. However - It doesn't really matter. None of this does. All this fuss really amounts to nothing because it's an open forum. If we don't like it, we are simply told to ignore it or leave. That's about all you can do. This argument is about nothing...I think, although I really agree with you, because everyone is allowed to have their own opinion. So while I wish it would be ok here to be able to talk about that kind of stuff - that's what I was looking for a long time ago when I started posting here - it's more than likely not possible that anything is going to change. This is all theater. |
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Joined: 06 Jul 2003
Posts: 6746
Location: Central CA
| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:31 am Post subject: | |
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Gentlemen... you have just issued summary judgments on the honest, integrity and characters of an entire group of people based SOLELY on how they react to things YOU have done and said. Aside from the fact that you are not QUALIFIED to render those types of judgments on other people, your premise is false from the get go.
I know it will do no good to once again reiterate this because you will not even acknowledge it. But one thing the two of you need to understand... your opinions, no matter what they are... are NOT the issue, either for me of for most of the people who have talked to me about this situation. MA, when you first came here... whether you realize it or not, whether you'll admit it or not... you set out to establish your perceived superiority over the rest. The First thing you did was dump out that back story about being a big shot 6 figure executive simply taking time out from the rat race to go back to school and being temporarily reduced to working at Sears while doing it. I'm not saying it's not true mind you, I really don't CARE if it's true or not... but why would anyone here need that kind of a back story in the first place and why would you need to have it on record right off the bat? Not very many people feel the need to... well,,, basically make an excuse for being among a group of people, especially TO that very group of people. I'm not sure you can do this, but put yourself in the place of Joe Workingstiff and stop and think... "why would a big shot like that need to sell washers at Sears to finance school? Didn't he have anything left over from all those six figure years? And even if he didn't, why would he take a rock bottom job in what is rapidly becoming the rock bottom company in retail when he could get a job more in keeping with his training and sation in life, etc.? Especially since he feels the need to make excuses for having to do so" and so on. Again, bear with me, I'm just illustrating here, not calling you a liar. It didn't help either that you had all these little "stories" about the lower classes and all these opinions on what needed to be done about this group and that group all of whom were of the "lower" classes. I know I was the only one saying anything at the time, but I'll guarantee you I wasn't the only one noticing. You were attracting a LOT of attention with that Sister Bertha Betterthanyou attitude. Whether you intended to or not, by saying some of the things you were saying, by making it sound like it was all just a temporary glitch in your gitalong and that eventually you'd be back to your RIGHTFUL spot in the food chain and wouldn't have to deal with the "lower" classes directly any more... I have to keep telling you that I'm not saying that everything anyone thought about you is true beyond a doubt... just saying that YOU created a PERCEPTION that it was and by doing so, You are the one who set YOURSELF apart from the group and you appeared to have done it deliberately. We won't even go into the threadjacking since we've been over it time and time again except to note that you've changed it to "lampooning" now as if changing the label somehow makes it something else. Too bad you don't take to being the lampoonee as well as you do being the lampooner.
Anyway, I don't think you ever really understood that a lot of these people here know more about Sears than you or Shake put together will EVER know about working at Sears. When the people on this forum first started coming together almost five years ago, some of them were actually executives working in Hoffman and many of them at the store level were high dollar sales people. When things started going to hell in a hand basket there were the Internet forums where they could actually get together and compare notes and realize that these were not isolated cases. So they came here pretty much for the sole purpose of talking about what was happening to the company and what was happening to them because of it. That has ALWAYS been the reason the majority of them were here. They're the old timers who have been shafted by events and who come here to talk about those events. I can't state that strongly enough. That is why they come here. It's not up to you guys to change or shape the forum? It's none of your business how "negative" Joe Blow is. You don't HAVE to agree with him but you have no right to crash his thread because you don't. There is absolutely no call for you to try to inject "balance" into every single thread (This is based on taking you at your word that's all you're trying to do) or to try to counter or even question the "negativity of other members. Once again... none of your business. It has all been explained to BOTH of you numerous times and yet you still keep posting the same "questions" and the same complaints about negativity and why certain members are here over and over again. If you and Shake and whoever else wants to sit and talk about all the good things coming down from Sears. again start yourself a thread and have at it. Which brings us directly to your complaints that everybody wants to stifle you and you're being picked on and persecuted. Okay guys... just what is it you expect? You're whining because every time you post something positive in a negative thread, people immediately jump on you and yadayada, is that it? Is that all there is? So what is it you want? You want to be able to post an opposing response on someone's thread, which tells someone basically that they're wrong and then have the whole thread simply stop right there and nobody be allowed to dispute or rebut you because if they do you're gonna run back here and make chickenshit posts about what a bunch of rotten bastards they are? Or do you think you get to post an opinion in your own thread and if anyone disagrees and posts a rebuttal you can likewise immediately start whining about being stifled and persecuted by a gang of bullies and once again make public posts about what a sorry bunch they are? Is THIS what you guys are after? Good grief guys... anybody with three adjacent brain cells can tell you're wanting exactly what you're accusing others of wanting. Think about it. |
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Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 60
Location: MPU
| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:39 am Post subject: | |
| Why can't we all just get along? | |