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Major Appliance


Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 1292
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:40 pm    Post subject: Exxon Profits: Who benefits?  

The Myth of Big Oil - Who Actually Benefits from Record Profits

Posted by Red Team - DarylMarch 14, 2008

There has been a general misunderstanding of modern economics running rampant through the global warming debate, and that is the assigning some sort of evil personality to the oil corporations across the globe.

This is a side effect of two popular social platforms; the Populists who believe all big business is self-serving and conspires to take away prosperity from the middle class, and the Progressive Democrats who are for huge social programs and the redistribution of wealth. In order to shed some light on this we need to answer the question "Who actually owns Big Oil Corporations and who benefits from their record breaking profits?"


First thing you need to know is that nearly all oil companies are Public Corporations, meaning they are open to public trading on the various stock exchanges around the world. Since the concept of a public corporation is not new I will take it that everyone understands that these entities are owned by their shareholders. So as an example I will use Exxon’s Mobil’s financial statements for 2006 to look at where all the profits go: Exxon Mobil Financial and Operating Review 2006

Lets look at the key points on page 4 of the review. I know people feel that big oil is evil because they make huge profits, so the first thing they see is "Record Earnings of $39.5 Billion", then they stop reading and proceed to jump up and down and cry about the injustice of the world. Since we are calmer and much more evenly balanced individuals, lets actually keep reading down two more lines and what do we find? "32.6 Billion in Distribution to Shareholders". So let me see, they made $39.5 Billion and gave shareholders, as mentioned before the owners of the company, $32.6 Billion.

So if I still have your attention, Exxon Mobil returned $7.6 Billion in the form of stock dividends (a payment made to all stock holders based on the number of shares they hold) which are basically profit sharing payments to the owners of the corporation. They also bought back $25 Billion in outstanding shares, this is done to maintain the market capitalization based on the number of outstanding shares that would have diluted the stock value when the company issues shares as part of business deals, as well as into the employee’s retirement fund and compensation plans.

So if you have not started jumping about cursing those cigar smoking fat cats in their wood panelled members only clubs counting their windfalls, lets look at who actually owns Exxon and see who benefited from these payout actions.

Who Owns Exxon?

To find this out we can use any of the hundreds of online stock quote services on the Internet. XOM is the ticker symbol on the NYSE. I used Business Week’s stock quotation system as it has an ownership tab. You can look at it here.

The first line we read states "Insiders control 0.05% of XOM through the 4,163,458 shares that they hold.", these are the fat cat cigar smokers everyone says make all the money. So they made a dividend as they tend to hold their shares unless they need the capital, so since 7.6 Billion was paid in dividends they received $3,800,000 in taxable dividend payments for 2006.

So who owns all the rest of the company’s stock? For that we look at Institutional Investors in the stock quote, these are the Mutual Funds, Retirement Plans and other investment companies, "52.64% of XOM shares held by institutional investors" so these are the funds that help to generate wealth for all the millions of regular people who invest in stocks through funds and other institutional vehicles. These are average people saving for retirement or investing in education plans to pay for college for their children, they received $4,000,640,000 dollars into their accounts.

That leaves 47.31% of the shares held by individual Investors, these are the people who actively and directly invest in the markets from all walks of life, like your barber or your colleague in the office who day trades instead of actually working, and of course those terrible rich people. They got the balance of the dividend payments, or $3,595,560,000.00 against taxed income for them.

What about the $25 Billion in Stock Buy Backs, you ask?

Well Exxon pays fair market value to anyone who wants to sell their shares, so when Investors take profits, from buying at a lower price and selling at the new price, they get this return on investment. This helps to keep the stock value high and protect the dividends of those who continue to hold their stocks. So that $25 Billion again went directly into the pockets of regular Investors directly or via shared funds as they sell their positions, this helps make sure people who want to take profits can do so at fair market prices.

This practice also keeps the outstanding number of shares consistent and helps to maintain liquidity in the trading system, without this sellers would make less money as the sell orders may have to wait for buyers, this lowers stock prices.

We are Big Oil

So to recap, when people curse the Big Oil companies for making money they do not realize that they themselves may be the beneficiaries of the actual profits, and in calling for higher taxes on oil companies you could be calling for lower investment returns for your retirement or your children’s education funds. We are Big Oil and when we say we need to tax them more, we are taking income out of our own and our neighbour’s pockets.

Why does this matter in the climate change debate? Well because the record profits are not the Government’s to take away and use for renewable energy policies and other climate change mitigation programs - that money is coming out of the public’s pocket. The Government takes their cut through corporate taxes and income taxes on each individual stockholder.

So if you want to do some good, take your profits or new investment money and invest it in companies working on solutions you support. These companies would love the Investment, but make sure you buy shares directly from the company or else you are just buying some other person’s shares they are trying to sell. In a capitalist economy your vote with Investment capital is much more powerful in regards to mitigation research and renewable projects than your calls to raise taxes to fund these initiatives.

Remember, we are talking about taking money from the incomes of your fellow citizens, and quite possibly yourself, without even realizing it.

This subject of this post originated from an article in the New York Times by Ben Stein.


source of this article

http://www.talkclimatechange.com/2008/03/14/the-myth-of-big-oil-who-actually-benefits-from-record-profits/


-----------

To paraphrase Pogo: "We have met the fat cat and he is us"
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allhandsabandonship


Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1640
Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:00 pm    Post subject:  

Since the amount of share buybacks was more than five times the amount of the profits they so generously distributed to the masses, I'd like to see more consideration of this issue. How much of this share buying covered for exorbitant option based compensation for company management and employees? Share dividends aren't the only way funds are redistributed to the "fat cats". How much did they get in other company perks?

As usual, the situation isn't as simple as apologists like to suggest.
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Major Appliance


Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 1292
Location: Brand Central
Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:33 am    Post subject:  

I see this article as a starting point for discovery

The main point here is that a huge % of the stocks of the major corporations that some love to bash is owned by "us" the people who have shares in mutual funds and 401Ks
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Nofsdad


Joined: 06 Jul 2003
Posts: 6742
Location: Central CA
Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:51 am    Post subject:  

Major Appliance wrote:
I see this article as a starting point for discovery

The main point here is that a huge % of the stocks of the major corporations that some love to bash is owned by "us" the people who have shares in mutual funds and 401Ks

Let's see if I can ask this without you claiming you're head is being taken off or something of that nature. Wink

OK, once again, you're used naked hype to make your point. It's OK, we all do it but when you talk about a HUGE percentage being owned by "us", the people who have shares in funds and 401ks... HOW big a percentage are we talking about?

It could also be said that HUGE percentage is also owned by Institutional Shareholders such as hedge funds and private equity firms. You might also say that a HUGE percentage is owned by offshore financial institutions. Might even say that a HUGE amount is owned by private individuals as in the case of the Walton family. Huge is such a relative term that it just naturally brings up the question of huge compared to WHAT?.

To simplify it some... in the case of let's just say Sears, since it's one we're familiar with... Since Mr. Lampert owns almost half the stock which I would consider a HUGE amount, either directly or through ESL/RBSP and the several other major hedge funds, PEF's and smaller institutional shareholder groups account for literally millions of more shares... how big a percentage is left over for "we" the people?

I'm certainly no expert in this kind of stuff but I would GUESS that once you account for all the shares controlled by the 9 major hedge funds and the dozens of lesser lights involved that the percentage left to be divvied out to the average working stiff with an SHC 401k plan is not going to be as huge as it sounds. And I also suspect, that other companies follow pretty much the same pattern.

And last but not least... OK let's grant that a huge amount IS owned by "we" the people who have shares in mutual funds and 401k plans... so what?

Does that in itselft justify say... Walmart's exploitation of it's work force? Or to use something you yourself brought up not long ago... the stifling of competition, the shutting down of local businesses and the ruination of main streets across America?

I suppose if you own a few shares of Walmart, it might.
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dictators_rule


Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Posts: 4793
Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:05 pm    Post subject: 401Ks and jerrys kids  

Using the 401k shtick is like fronting Jerry's Kids for the cause

First if you take all the retirements/401Ks with Exxon in a mutual fund with in a retirement fund and spread that out among all the participants the dollar value per participant would be probably less than the gas costs for the same plan participant.

Then with savings at all time low who is really benefiting with Exxon stock-those trying to save or those with plenty of savings already.Again the fuel costs probably negate any benefit of owning Exxon stock.
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Major Appliance


Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 1292
Location: Brand Central
Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:36 am    Post subject:  

I own no direct shares of any corporation, but i'm not of the type that believes that corporations are inherently evil. Big companies are often demonized (witness the current "windfall tax" hyperbole from the Obama campaign) and blamed for every evil that befalls us. Exxon benefited from the run up in crude prices, making the crude they own and pump more valuable.

This article takes a step back and looks at Exxon, and who owns what, as they are the current 'corporate evil #1', and the fact is that most large corporations have diffused and very wide ownership these days. Witness Anheuser-Busch, whose founding family currently only owned 1.5% of the company and could not prevent a take over if they had wanted to.

Sears is a separate issue, and I'm not comparing Exxon to Sears by any stretch here.

To sum up: A corporation making a profit if this nature is more luck than planning, and as a result the employees and shareholders will benefit from that situation.
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dictators_rule


Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Posts: 4793
Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:30 am    Post subject: free market capitalist  

I'm a free market capitalist,but capitalism requires legitimate competition which these big corporations can take away.

And the leverage these corporations hold over the US economy gives them an undeserved don't mess with them status.The big corporations or groups of become defacto governments in themselves if not for power but services that many governments provide.
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Nofsdad


Joined: 06 Jul 2003
Posts: 6742
Location: Central CA
Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:11 am    Post subject:  

MA... to use your own recent analogy... no, corporations CAN'T be "inherently evil". As you have stated, they themselves are nothing but legal constructs and as such, they have no intrinsic responsibility to perform in a manner that, if it doesn't actually benefit society as a whole, at least does no harm to society as a whole.

But the bottom line is that there are PEOPLE who control those corporations and as simple human beings, like it or not, they DO have a responsibility to do no harm to society if for no other reason than they are a part OF that society and derive their being from it.

If there wasn't someone out here doing the work, all those bucks wouldn't be flowing into those offshore accounts and multi-million dollar separation packages. I simply think the people doing the work that puts the money in the pockets of the fat cats deserve a little more consideration, that's all.
Taking anything and everything you can just BECAUSE you can does not make you an upright citizen of the community that we all have to live in.

I get the impression that you feel that because a relatively few "other" people somehow derive some measure of benefit from the actions of the people running the companies that have brought us to the present state of affairs, then it's somehow not relevant that a far greater number are suffering, many greatly, from the effects of those same actions.

And nobody was comparing Exxon to Sears... again you go for the shallowest possible interpretation possible, the one that requires the minimum of actual thought and analysis in regard to what was actually said. Sears just happens to be the example of todays corporate thinking that most people who read here are familiar with, that's all. I'm sorry you didn't get it.
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Major Appliance


Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 1292
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Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:08 pm    Post subject:  

Nofsdad wrote:
But the bottom line is that there are PEOPLE who control those corporations and as simple human beings, like it or not, they DO have a responsibility to do no harm to society if for no other reason than they are a part OF that society and derive their being from it.


That is true, and I'm in agreement. And its certainly fair to attack any policy and/or decision.

Quote:
If there wasn't someone out here doing the work, all those bucks wouldn't be flowing into those offshore accounts and multi-million dollar separation packages. I simply think the people doing the work that puts the money in the pockets of the fat cats deserve a little more consideration, that's all.


The conflict here is over the value of labor to be sold in the marketplace. The capitalist buys labor from the worker to use that labor to accomplish a particular task, no matter the level of the work (CEOs are workers in that sense as well) In the abstract, the only real obligation any business or capitalist has toward any worker is to pay the rate agreed upon and to provide any and all other benefits as agreed.

The conflict comes when the the offer of benefits or pay changes as revised downward. Essentially the capitalist realizes that in the marketplace, he is at a disadvantage as compared to his competitors in labor costs. and must change his offer to pay or benefits as included in the offer to pay, and conflict ensues.

As I have noted before, the culprit here is not Sears, per se, it is that turbulent marketplace that has forced these changes. Walmart, especially, is driving these events. So the individual worker, facing a devaluation of his labors, gets (understandably) angry. In some cases he becomes less effective and/or retaliates against the company that employs him. The more logical reaction is to seek other employment where the value is rewarded to the level he is comfortable with.

Now, again, this is the discussion in the abstract. In reality, change is harder than simply looking for a new job. You don't have to like the effects, but its important to understand the market forces at work.

Quote:
Taking anything and everything you can just BECAUSE you can does not make you an upright citizen of the community that we all have to live in.


A capitalist has, at the core, only one obligation to his investors/shareholders: Profit. Anything beyond that is nice, laudable and to be encouraged... BUT, if you cannot accomplish that basic obligation, then all other things need to be left out of the discussion until you get that right. Businesses exist to buy labor and materials and make a profit from selling a product or service, that is their minimum raison d'être.

NOW: In my opinion, happy workers make for far better productivity, and a smart manager/capitalist recognizes that benefits are an important part of the equation for success, and compensates his/her workers in such a manner as to b successful. But my opinion on how to run a business does not obviate the basic harsh hard facts of the capital/labor equation.

Quote:
I get the impression that you feel that because a relatively few "other" people somehow derive some measure of benefit from the actions of the people running the companies that have brought us to the present state of affairs, then it's somehow not relevant that a far greater number are suffering, many greatly, from the effects of those same actions.


I'm not sure how to answer this statement beyond what I have noted above.

Quote:
And nobody was comparing Exxon to Sears... again you go for the shallowest possible interpretation possible, the one that requires the minimum of actual thought and analysis in regard to what was actually said. Sears just happens to be the example of todays corporate thinking that most people who read here are familiar with, that's all. I'm sorry you didn't get it.


Not to be combative, but it was not I who introduced Sears to this discussion, you did (see your first post above) I have no problem in expanding the discussion, But Exxon made a huge profit, from which its workers & shareholders have benefited, in contrast with Sears.
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allhandsabandonship


Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1640
Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:52 pm    Post subject:  

Major Appliance wrote:
As I have noted before, the culprit here is not Sears, per se, it is that turbulent marketplace that has forced these changes. Walmart, especially, is driving these events. So the individual worker, facing a devaluation of his labors, gets (understandably) angry. In some cases he becomes less effective and/or retaliates against the company that employs him. The more logical reaction is to seek other employment where the value is rewarded to the level he is comfortable with.



If it was easy for employees to simply switch jobs on a whim it might all work out fine. There is an enormous disparity in power between the employee and the mega corporations which provide most of the jobs these days. The personal cost of switching jobs for an individual (which includes emotional and other non monetary costs)is far more than the cost to a company of switching employees. Since there are relatively few companies, compared to the number of employees, the companies are able to operate in ways which effectively restrict employee movement. Just look at the irrational selection processes Sears puts people through in order to get a job. Companies can put people through hell for even the lousiest jobs.

Maybe we should be thinking about whether we want a society where employees have to act like interchangeable parts in a machine order to survive.
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Nofsdad


Joined: 06 Jul 2003
Posts: 6742
Location: Central CA
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:37 am    Post subject:  

Quote:
Maybe we should be thinking about whether we want a society where employees have to act like interchangeable parts in a machine order to survive.

Perfectly said, AH.
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Major Appliance


Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 1292
Location: Brand Central
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:53 am    Post subject:  

Quote:
If it was easy for employees to simply switch jobs on a whim it might all work out fine.


I recognize that, and noted so in my comments.

And as we know: labor + capital = profit

If the 'labor' (whether they be line workers or CPAs) is unhappy, productivity suffers... but the cold hard reality of the market sometimes forces decisions that can affect the esprit de corps

In a perfect world, no one would ever be displaced, but as we know, we're no where near that place.
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Nofsdad


Joined: 06 Jul 2003
Posts: 6742
Location: Central CA
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:43 am    Post subject:  

I hate to butt in with such a crass question but how do you equate the "cold hard reality of the market" with executive salaries that are 800 times the average income, "golden parachutes" running into the tens and even hundreds of millions, all the other spiffs and perks such as free health care for life, use of the company jets for private business, 11 billion buck quarterly profit... hell, I don't have to list it all, do I?

Those are the cold hard realities that no defender of the status quo wants to talk about.

Seems to me that if the little shareholders you keep tossing up as a counter to concerns over the millions of people who actuallywork their asses off to put all that loot in the pockets of the one percenters were as important to the BODs and CEOs and CFOs and all those other anagrams, they wouldn't have to be standing here trying to justify taking THEIR cut from the people below them on the food chain.

The MAJOR difference between shareholders and employees is that shareholders have a choice... they are not required to buy shares in any company. If they're unhappy with their return, they can take their money and put it somewhere else.

Employees on the other hand, HAVE to WORK somewhere.

Seems to me the the one "cold hard reality" you keep right on refusing to give its full due is the absolute and total greed of the people running the show.
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Major Appliance


Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 1292
Location: Brand Central
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:04 am    Post subject:  

Employees on the other hand, HAVE to WORK somewhere.

Or, they could start their own enterprise and hire others to work for them.

And this discussion is about Exxon's 'windfall' profits, not CEO salaries.

You might want to start your own thread on that topic.

Mr. Green
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Nofsdad


Joined: 06 Jul 2003
Posts: 6742
Location: Central CA
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:20 pm    Post subject:  

*ignoring the falsely premised attempt at snark* Wink
Quote:
Or, they could start their own enterprise and hire others to work for them.

So even just those 60 million working people making under 25k, let alone the rest of the working class who haven't actually moved into the minus column yet, can all go out and start their own enterprise and have other people working for them eh? Sure a lot of careful analysis and judgement went into that one.
Mr. Green
I'm pretty sure that if you actually stop and think about that statement...

First of all if they ALL go out and start their own business who's going to be LEFT to "work for them?

And yeah... even I can see 60 plus million successful new business startups all at once. Rolling Eyes

There will always be a working class and to even suggest that any society could function otherwise borders on pure lunacy.

Workers have to work, MA. If greed ridden me firstest and mostest types are all there are for most of them to work for then most of them have to work for those types. Lame Wall Street or boardroom talking points with no basis in reality won't change that.
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Major Appliance


Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 1292
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Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:22 am    Post subject:  

*ignoring the falsely premised attempt at snark*


LOL

doooood. I was KIDDING.
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Magnolia


Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 1367
Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:45 am    Post subject:  

Major Appliance wrote:
I see this article as a starting point for discovery

The main point here is that a huge % of the stocks of the major corporations that some love to bash is owned by "us" the people who have shares in mutual funds and 401Ks


When do "we" get our 25M exit package?
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Nofsdad


Joined: 06 Jul 2003
Posts: 6742
Location: Central CA
Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:09 am    Post subject:  

Major Appliance wrote:
*ignoring the falsely premised attempt at snark*


LOL

doooood. I was KIDDING.

But it's only kidding when it's you doing it, right? Wink
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Nofsdad


Joined: 06 Jul 2003
Posts: 6742
Location: Central CA
Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:17 am    Post subject:  

Magnolia wrote:
Major Appliance wrote:
I see this article as a starting point for discovery

The main point here is that a huge % of the stocks of the major corporations that some love to bash is owned by "us" the people who have shares in mutual funds and 401Ks


When do "we" get our 25M exit package?

Actually the trend in thinking in some financial circles right now is toward the notion that those people owning small numbers of shares or sharing in small returns from 401ks and funds and such will be the next victims to be sold down the river.
\
Nobody is coming right out and saying it's going to happen, but there's a whole lot of "if present trends continue" type speculation along with descriptions of the possible consequences when and if it does come about.

At his point, I simply cannot believe that the people who have gotten filthy rich by bringing us to this point are going to stop doing exactly what they're doing until someone steps in and STOPS them and we all know about how likely that is. In order to bring about an end to bad behavior, there have to consequences and so far these suckers are in general not only getting off Scot free but being well rewarded for their behavior by Uncle Stupid over at the Federal Reserve.
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dictators_rule


Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Posts: 4793
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:24 pm    Post subject: BOD  

Mags-where's my 25 million exit package

Why your 25 million exit package is with your buddies on the boards of directors or friends there of.Or on an exec with fish lips on his butt.

The boards of directors sign off on a public companies business.If the boards of directors really wanted to give something back to public or 'seem' like an ethical company they would do it.But they might loose their seat on bod.
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