If the U.S. election were held tomorrow...

Last edited by robbie_dee on Wed Jul 09, 2003 7:17 am; edited 2 times in total

OK this post is mainly out of idle curiosity. And also to put something else here in the politics forum, besides Rob G.'s rant.

So if the 2004 elections were for some reason held tomorrow, who would you vote for? Feel free to add comments.

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 6:57 am Post subject:

Can us Canadians vote? Mr. Green

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 7:00 am Post subject:

I'll go first. For me, it's not easy being Green, but that's where my beliefs compel me.

I honestly don't trust the Democrats to do right either for workers or for the environment any more. I'd never vote Republican.

I'm tempted by Howard Dean, but for now I'm still staying with a 3rd party.

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 7:04 am Post subject:

Slek wrote:

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 7:09 am Post subject:

I always vote for the dems.
I'm from Mass! ~GoodFella

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 7:17 am Post subject:

BTW, if there were no Green votes in FL.
Gore would have won.
Oh, yeah, no wmd's yet........guess we are still lookin GW.
Sloppy. ~GoodFella

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 7:26 am Post subject:

Well then, if I were an American I would probably vote Green as well if only to shake up the strangle-hold the republicrats have over the entire country.

Change is good.

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 7:30 am Post subject:

Good weapon sleK,.......can you fire some toward me.....running low. LOL. ~GoodFella

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 7:41 am Post subject:

Joined: 04 Jul 2003 Posts: 933 Location: roaming...

I voted, but ... (stealing my own post from MFD):

How the 2004 US vote can be EASILY hijacked: ah yes, the IT age.....

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/insideUSvote.html

The above link is just a copy of the original article, posted here:

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0307/S00065.htm

The New Zealand site has been bogged down with extreme view-requests, so I recommend the first link.

HOW THE BACK DOOR WAS FOUND:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/biggerthanwatergate.html

INTEGRITY FLAW FOUND:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/flawfound.html

Once more, these pages were simply copied from the New Zealand site, as it is overwhelmed with requests.....

(edit: yep, spelling again)

Joined: 04 Jul 2003 Posts: 130 Location: Florida

Well, after the last election, talk about your 'shock & awe' I'm not quite sure I want to ever vote again. (Probably will, but i'm still in shock over the last debacle.) Guess which state I live in?
Does the word 'chad' give you a hint?

To me it was like a John Grisham novel. The twenty eight lawyers on their way here even before the election was over. The colorful interesting socialalite. The the down home local election committees, the local courts, the state courts and finally the Supreme Court.

Only in the US Very Happy

Joined: 04 Jul 2003 Posts: 1337 Location: The Collective

I live in California....probably some of you have heard about the recall effort we are having. Almost 1 million signatures have been gathered and it looks like it will happen. The Democrats hold ALL statewide elected offices and control both houses of the assembly. This state is an economic wreck...almost 40 BILLION in the red. These are the facts and no one can dispute them. The assembly and governor (Greyout Davis) have spent far over the % increase in inflation EVERY year since he was governor. The Dems in our assembly virtually wanted no spending cuts just tax increases. Again these are not subjective things I have stated..they are the plain facts. If the state of CA were Sears Roebuck and CO, we would have many on here up in arms demanding an investigation into fiscal mis-management and corruption! That may be the difference between me and several others on this forum. Many dont trust coperate America and doubt their motives. I on the other hand do not trust the goverment to spend my money better than I can. To those of you in states run by Democrats that are doing well, congrats! But here in CA they have ruined this states financial future in 6 short years......some of you know American history....one of the things this country was founded on was excessive taxation.......maybye we need another revolution in CA.

Joined: 04 Jul 2003 Posts: 1416 Location: Indianapolis, IN

The #1 problem in politics is:

Re-electing Incumbents

the first time an elected official serves his or her time, they are generally working in the best interest of the community, the state, or the country. thereafter, they work in the best interest of themselves. when our government system was founded, it was the standard that a person would run, get elected, do his job, then go home. now they run, get elected, set up their own shop, and take up residence.

MrsDD

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 5:47 pm Post subject:

Joined: 04 Jul 2003 Posts: 1337 Location: The Collective

Here is an article on the recall....the firefighter and prison guard unions tried several tactics to stop it....read the last few paragraphs carefully.....the article also says that a hard core of right-wingers is causing the recall......gee over a million signatures and 80% of Californians hate his performance as govenor....sounds a lot like democracy to me...

Recall signature wrap-up
Organizers say they have enough to force an election.
By Margaret Talev -- Bee Capitol Bureau
Published 2:15 a.m. PDT Tuesday, July 8, 2003
Organizers of a campaign to recall Gov. Gray Davis shut down their paid signature-gathering effort Monday, saying they have enough voter signatures to trigger what would be a historic election to remove a sitting California governor.
It took most of the day to get the word out via cellular phone to 1,200 petition circulators, who were told to pack up the card tables and clipboards they had staffed since mid-May at shopping centers from Yuba City to Barstow to the Mexican border.

"We're done," said David Gilliard, director of Rescue California, the Republican-backed committee organizing the campaign against the Democratic incumbent. "The only question still out is when the election will be."

It could be days or weeks before the California secretary of state's office determines whether at least 897,158 valid voter signatures have been submitted to county elections officials, the minimum required by state law to hold a gubernatorial recall election.

Anticipating some invalid signatures from repeat signers or nonvoters, Rescue California aimed to collect at least 1.2 million signatures. The group met that goal over the Independence Day weekend, Gilliard said, with about 900,000 signatures coming from the paid gatherers and 300,000 from direct mail sent to GOP voting households.

Gilliard expected thousands more to come in from Republican clubs throughout the state, and from anti-tax activists and a former Republican lawmaker who first called for a recall campaign in February.

How quickly the signature validation proceeds, and whether lawsuits are filed over the matter, will decide whether an election is set for October, November or March.

Secretary of State Kevin Shelley has told county elections officials that they can take up to 30 days to validate signatures after raw counts have been submitted.

Sacramento County's election staff says it may need that extra time. But in many large counties, including San Diego, Los Angeles and Orange, officials say that their computer software allows them to validate at an ongoing and relatively fast pace and that they should not need the extra time.

In San Diego, at least, the signatures being submitted by recall supporters also have a high validity rate -- about 87 percent, according to the assistant registrar of voters, Tim McNamara.

The governor's supporters would prefer any election be held next spring, when a higher Democratic turnout and a cooler-minded electorate might vote to retain the unpopular governor.

Davis' job approval rating is at an all-time low of 21 percent with likely voters, who blame him for the state's $38.2 billion budget shortfall and higher car-registration fees.

In U.S. history, only one gubernatorial recall has succeeded, in North Dakota in 1921. Since California's adoption of the recall in 1911, none of 31 attempts to remove a governor has made it to the ballot.

Davis went about normal business on Monday, visiting an elementary school in Los Angeles, urging lawmakers to end a budget stalemate and making appointments to regional boards and commissions.

"If the people want me to present my credentials one more time, I have no fear of the electorate," he told reporters. "Five times they've elected me to statewide office, twice as governor, and I'm happy to present my credentials and demonstrate the progress we've made."

Davis political adviser Roger Salazar said that if the recall qualifies for an election, it merely reflects how much was spent to find conservative Republicans among the state's 35 million residents.

Rescue California has been financed mostly by $1.3 million in donations from U.S. Rep. Darrell Issa, a San Diego County Republican who wants to replace Davis as governor.

"You put enough money behind an effort and you can buy enough signatures to qualify anything for the ballot," Salazar said.

"But the California electorate is predominantly Democratic. Just because you have a minority of hard-core right-wingers supporting a recall doesn't mean the rest of California will buy into it."

Issa could not be reached for comment.

A spokesman for the union-backed campaign organizing opposition to the recall said his group was not ready to concede there will be an election.

"We'll believe it when we see it," said Carroll Wills of Taxpayers Against the Governor's Recall.

For Gilliard, it was a foregone conclusion. In the afternoon, he flew from Sacramento to Orange County, where he was scheduled to meet privately with several top Republican donors and to begin conducting focus groups to shape an election strategy.

He has set a $15 million budget for a recall campaign akin to a general election, to include polling and advertising. He expected Davis to ramp up fund-raising efforts as well.

In a recall election, Rescue California would not advocate for any specific alternative candidates but simply against Davis. Voters would be asked whether to retain Davis and who should replace him if the recall succeeds.

Several Republicans in addition to Issa are considering running, including actor Arnold Schwarzenegger and investor Bill Simon, who lost to Davis in last November's election. Money manager Peter Camejo, a Green Party member who also lost to Davis last fall, plans to run. Leading Democrats have said they will stay out of a recall election.

Anti-tax activist Ted Costa and former lawmaker Howard Kaloogian called for a recall in February, but they struggled for lack of money. The paid effort, driven by Issa, lasted only eight weeks.

It was targeted by the anti-recall group, which lured away signature gatherers by offering to pay them 25 cents more per signature to circulate nonbinding petitions opposing the recall.

"From a personal point of view, it was a real challenge because I had four signature-gathering companies trying to block me by carrying the pro-Davis petition," said Tom Bader, who coordinated Rescue California's signature gathering.

The signature drive picked up steam in late June as voters reacted to news that the state would triple annual car-registration fees because of budget woes.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 5:07 am Post subject:

Do you consider yourself a "fiscal conservative" Bodyguard?

Because I have to ask you this: in light of the huge debt and deficit California already faces, do you think that the recall election for a governor who is barred by term limits from running again, and for whom the replacement choice will most likely be another Democrat anyway, is the best expenditure of the state and taxpayers' money right now?

P.S. I consider myself a "fiscal pinko" and if I was governor I would fix the deficit and power messes by re-nationalizing the power system and taxing the sh!t out of all the other corporate profiteers who screwed the state into this position. Hey maybe I should run in the recall election? I may only need about 7% of the vote to win! Thumbs Up

__________________________
President Michael Moore in '04

Joined: 04 Jul 2003 Posts: 1337 Location: The Collective

[quote="robbie_dee"]Do you consider yourself a "fiscal conservative" Bodyguard?

Because I have to ask you this: in light of the huge debt and deficit California already faces, do you think that the recall election for a governor who is barred by term limits from running again, and for whom the replacement choice will most likely be another Democrat anyway, is the best expenditure of the state and taxpayers' money right now?

The cost of the recall is nothing compared to what damage will be caused if Davis is in office for the next budget cycle. If Davis does not resign then he will run....no Dem has stepped foward (they would face the same smear campain as all others that have faced Davis in an election). Davis took a 10 Billion surplus and with the consent of the Dems in the state legislature spent ourselves into a 40 billion dollar hole. They really make me puke.....the recall effort is grassroots democracy at work.....power to the people! right??

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 5:47 am Post subject:

Davis is legally barred from running for governor again in 2006. He's served his two terms and he's out At most, you recall proponents are gaining 2 1/2 to 3 years on this eventuality. Maybe you think it's worth it.

Like I said above, I don't believe California has a government spending problem, I believe they have a problem with insufficient tax revenue and excessive corporate welfare & state asset sell-offs. That problem runs much deeper than the man in the governor's chair. (For that matter, even for those who do believe the problem is a spendthrift government, I find it hard to see how you would blame it all on the governor when there is a whole state legislature and entrenched special interest lobbying industry that will remain unchanged even if Davis is removed.)

According to the rules of the recall election, Davis cannot be a candidate to replace himself. The voters get asked two questions: First, should Davis be recalled. If they vote majority no, Davis keeps his job. If they vote yes, Davis is out. For the second question, the voters pick a successor from a list of any and all bozos who coughed up the $5,000? deposit and collected 100? of their friends' signatures to get on the ballot. No primaries, no run-offs, whoever gets the most votes wins, even if its a ridiculously small percentage of the total. All voters get to vote on the second question, even if they voted "no" to the recall on the first one. The only guarantee we have about this is that Davis will not be on the list. He may be practically the only one.

This isn't democracy it's anarchy.

Joined: 04 Jul 2003 Posts: 1337 Location: The Collective

California has a massive spending problem.....I do blame more than just the governor.....but a dem governor will do nothing to stop a democratic legislature! Tax revenue is not the problem...spending is. Business are already running out of this state because of high taxes.....hold the line on both taxes AND spending (if you are not willing to cut) and we can grow our way out of the hole we are in.....pile on the taxes and keep throwing money away on pork projects and the hole will only get bigger. Seems to me that you said you have just moved to CA, correct? When we were in the last recession in the early 90's Repblican gov Pete Wilson faced almost the same problem...he made some tough cuts and used the line item veto that the CA governor has and balanced the budget. Davis has no where even close to the guts of Wilson. Do you think CA can run 40 billion dollar deficits for even one more year???

Take the fact that Davis LIED about the size of the defict before the election.....he said it was only 11 BILLION (lol ony) Candidate Bill Simon said that was wrong and was trashed by Davis as a corrupt businessman (he was exonerated by the way after the election) but just weeks after the Nov election he was stunned to realize the deficit was much larger than he said before!!! He lied to get elected and now we are going to get rid of him.......now do you wonder why the massive movement twords recall?????? It is democracy at its best...removing a bad elected official who is hurting the people of CA.

Joined: 07 Jul 2003 Posts: 45

Arnold Scwarzenegger has publicly stated that he's considering putting his movie career on hold in order to run for the California governor's office. Just for a term, long enough to "fix the problems" and then leave. He's Republican, by the way, despite being married to Maria Shriver, a Kennedy Democrat.
Think maybe Ah-nold can do what needs to be done??

Joined: 04 Jul 2003 Posts: 1337 Location: The Collective

Magpie, ANYBODY would be better than the Small Mouthed Grey we have now. He is one of the most corrupt, sceeming dirtbags ever elected in Califorina. Dont let anybody try to fool you by saying that it is a minority of people in the state that want him gone! Even the Dems cant stand him....is approval rating is a glorious 22%. He has also been using his political attack dogs (the fireman and prison guard unions) to attack the people trying to gather signatures...they also tried using false petitions untill a few were arrested.....It shows that he will use naked agression and terror to avoid the recall. Those unions I talked about above were promised protection in the budget crisis for their support.......now they are scared to get somebody they cant control.....did you know the average pay for a prison guard in CA is 70K?????? Not that is not a dangerous job, but cops on the street dont make that!!!!! Sorry to be so long winded, but I have lived in CA all my life and it makes me sick to see what the corrupt and power hungry have done to it.

	Forum Index -> Politics Schmolitics	All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1